This is what happens when you try terrorists in US courts

Two psychiatrists and a psychologist examined Jose Padilla on behalf of his defense lawyers and "say his extended detention and interrogation at the US Naval Consolidated Brig in Charleston, S.C., left him with severe mental disabilities." Yes, he was a perfectly normal (good boy?) before he decided to train to become a terrorist and harm Americans. Now the lawyers are claiming "after being interrogated, he is mentally disabled to the point of no return." It's a common tactic used by lawyers to gain sympathy for their clients.CSM

This my dear friends is why terrorists should not be tried as criminals. Remember, "There has never been a substantiated case of detainee abuse at Charleston Navy brig."

Padilla's psychological condition is important because his situation marks the first time an enemy combatant in the war on terror is in a position to present a verifiable claim of abuse at the hands of US interrogators. Padilla's mental health itself is a form of evidence, mental-health experts say, and it strongly suggests that – at least in Padilla's case – the government's harsh interrogation and confinement tactics went too far.

Padilla is currently on trial in Miami on terror conspiracy charges. Prosecutors say he was a willing Al Qaeda recruit who attended a training camp in Afghanistan. He denies the allegations. Closing arguments in the three-month trial are slated to begin Monday. [snip]

Defense Department officials reject charges that Padilla was mistreated. "The government in the strongest terms denies Padilla's allegations of torture – allegations made without support and without citing a shred of record evidence," writes Navy Commander J.D. Gordon, a spokesman for the secretary of Defense, in an e-mail. "Any credible allegations of illegal conduct by US military personnel are taken seriously and looked into in painstaking detail."

He adds, "There has never been a substantiated case of detainee abuse at Charleston Navy brig." (more)

Others from both sides of the isle:

do we understand terrorism?, from Second Floor

The Australian: media contents analysis of Islamic people and countries, Woolly Days

Getting Past Blame: Present Realities and How To Move Forward TMPCafe

British Parliament's Stupidity is Showing, YID With LID and Israelated

NO MORE BLOOD FOR AIR CONDITIONING!, Deep Green Perspective
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Comments

[Yankee Doodle]

Rasta: "If a citizen of the U.S. is caught committing an act of war against the U.S. during wartime, I'm pretty damn sure that person can be summarily shot on the spot."

Padilla was arrested getting off a plane.

What you are advocating is that anyone accused by the government could be shot on sight. Of course, we know all government employees, whether elected or otherwise, are honest and make no mistakes... (please forgive my dripping sarcasm -- you see the point, though).

What you advocate would make our country a shabby and dangerous place.

Bush has been making this up as he goes along. That is why the court stated "shifting tactics in the case threatens [the government's] credibility with the courts".

Padilla is different from the other accused terrorists. Padilla is a US citizen, he was detained on US soil, and was not caught in the act of anything. It's a criminal case for US criminal courts.

The other accused terrorists should indeed be tried in the US court system: **in military tribunals**. That is what historically happened with pirates who were captured by the Royal Navy: they would be tried in courts of the Lord High Admiral. And, in my opinion, the parallel between pirates and terrorists is a strong one.

Particularly worrisome in Padilla's case is the fact that he is now being tried on charges for which he was not being held -- again, it appears that the Administration is playing fast and loose with the facts. Certainly, there is no coherent strategy. And, that is really foolish, because if Bush had merely followed accepted procedure, Padilla would already being doing time in a federal prison (I doubt he would have received the death sentence), and many of the dirtbags in Guantanamo would now be under a death sentence. That would be powerful incentive to cooperate, in the hopes of having the sentence commuted, so we might be gaining intelligence that is useful, rather than having the detainees say whatever their civilian contractor interrogators want to hear just to keep from being waterboarded again!

But, no; His Majesty George had to do things his way, and now he has jeopardized the cases against all these terrorists, he has wasted the international support the US had in the wake of 9/11, and he has prejudiced our fundamental rights as Americans.

Bush has done more damage to this country than his predecessor -- and that's quite an accomplishment.

[TACK]

Opps grammar issues, don't blog and eat breakfast tacos at the same time..its a no no!

[TACK]

The last time I checked this was labeled as the “War on Terrorism” not the “Criminal Investigation of Terrorism.” The War on Terrorism also has and will continue to take place here on U.S. soil with U.S. persons involved (sleeper cells) and when and if an act is committed is and act of war or of criminal in nature, anyways…..I am not advocating outright anarchy when it comes to LOAC (law of armed combat) or what was decided upon at the Geneva Convention, or within our own judicial law system. BUT, I personally believe that Unconventional things cannot be governed, fought, ruled conventionally. These are unconventional times (the arrival of terrorism within U.S. borders) and they need to be acted upon and with an unconventional minds.

[Rastaman]

No, I didn't miss the point about anything nor do I consider Padilla to be worthy of exception.

We are at war.

Padilla acted as an enemy saboteur regardless of his citizenship.

Give him a proper military tribunal as an enemy combatant, on neutral ground such as Gitmo and then shoot the bastard... or hang him.

If a citizen of the U.S. is caught committing an act of war against the U.S. during wartime, I'm pretty damn sure that person can be summarily shot on the spot.

If I'm wrong, and I might be, kindly cite me the actual law that says so. If you can't then I'll stay right until you can.

Rasta

[A.C. McCloud]

I believe the reason Padilla is not being charged on the dirty bomb plot is because it would allow his defense lawyers discovery of evidence of top secret nature.

Not only that, but the Lynne Stewart case (convicted of passing notes from the Blind Sheikh) illustrated how certain defense lawyers act with sensitive info. So I'm with Debbie that we can't be bringing these people into American courts, Padilla being the exception due to his citizenship.

As to GTMO, I think it was a necessary evil. We can't just shoot all captured terrorists when some might provide some useful info on upcoming events.

[Debbie]

I think you all missed the point here, or maybe I wasn't clear. I know Padilla is a US citizen and of course HE should be tried in US courts.

But what is happening with him is exactly what would happen to non-Americans who were being tried of terrorism in US courts. This is what many on the Left want, to give US rights to non-Americans, like those being held in Gitmo, etc.

We cannot allow that to happen.

Whose worse? Lawyers or terrorists? (Let me think???) Just kidding, of course the terrorists are worse.

I also believe that the terrorists do deserve a trial (if they are still alive Rastaman, heh. But NOT a US trial inside the US.

[Opinionnation]

I'm conflicted. Which is worse: Terrorists? Or lawyers (in particular, lawyers who defend terrorists)?

[Yankee Doodle]

Rasta,

Jose Padilla is a US citizen who was arrested in Chicago on May 8, 2002.

By extension, you are advocating that the US government make war on US citizens within US territory.

My comment was and still is right on the money -- not popular, but correct.

[Rastaman]

I think you're yanking on your doodle on this one. We are at war. In war, people get shot. When the enemy is captured on the field of battle and there's no time to take prisoners or perhaps it's just simply inconvenient to do so, the prisoners are shot dead. Everyone does it. Everyone has always done it.

I agree that Bush has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, Hell, we all know that. Guantanamo is a prime example. Every one of those saps should have been either interrogated in Afghanistan where they were caught, given a quick military tribunal and either shot or released, or simply shot as found. Bringing them over to Gitmo proved to be a major error.

Steve is correct. War is Hell, shoot them all dead before they do it to us, etcetera. Either make war or don't, there's no in-between.

BTW, great news about Karl Rove leaving the White House! I hope it's because he has a terminal illness.

Rasta

[Yankee Doodle]

He is supposed to be presumed innocent until guilt is proven.

Furthermore, detaining civilians in a military brig is never supposed to be more than a temporary measure; US citizens who are civilians are supposed to be remanded to civilian authority as soon as reasonably possible.

The abuse that is alleged is the kind that would not leave evidence behind, and is based on training techniques in military SERE schools, which were intended to simulate the duress of captivity under communists. These techniques result in no permanent injury when used in a training environment by properly trained personnel simulating enemy interrogators, and for limited duration (i.e., the length of the training session). In the War on Terror, they have been used by poorly-trained civilian contractors for extended periods of time.

Bush had an open-and-shut case against this guy and other alleged terrorists, but he imperiously snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

In the immediate wake of 9/11, even Cuba and Libya were on our side. Now, the world compares the US to the terrorists. The comparison is quite unfair, in that they have made a mountain out of a mole-hill, but the fact remains that Bush gave them that mole-hill and more.

The grotesque result is nothing other than Bush's legacy.

Steve, your comment is very short-sighted. You are setting one element in our government -- the executive -- up to be judge, jury and executioner. Would you have been so quick to execute the accused without trial when Bill Clinton was president? Will you be so quick if Hillary wins?

Execution of the accused without a trial is the method of our enemies. If we do it as well, then we will have become the Islamic Republic of America; will you be one of our holy men preaching in our mosques? Oh, to be sure, it won't be Islam, mosques, etc., but the content will be there, even if the form is different.

We must stand on principle and defend the rights even of those who seek to destroy us; our laws must apply even to our enemies. If we lose this, we lose ourselves.

But, our imperious leader Bush has stated "Either you're with us, or you're with the terrorists." -- I guess I am with the terrorists, and should be executed as well? Without trial, no less?

Bin Laden will never defeat us, but we might just defeat ourselves.

[Steve Harkonnen]

What they need to do is just kill them outright. I have absolutely no problems in denying terrorists a trial.