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October 06, 2007

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Comments

Paul Champagne

I read a book last year about Conservatives seceeding from the Union and taking residence in Wyoming and Montana. I guess this would be "My Country ... Love it or Take a piece of it with you".

Stormwarning

I lived on LI for my entire life until 2006. I never ever heard of the Middlebury Institute, nor ever heard of the guys running it. Also, when I read this article http://vtcommons.org/node/193 by one of the principals, I scratched my head.

Butch

Actually, I wish Vermont WOULD secede...

Angel

where have I been Deb..I hadnt even heard this latest!!

Grouch at Right Truth

I am fed up with the power and spending of the federal gubment. I have always said the the only thing the federal gubment should do is print money and defend the shores. They suck at the former.

The masses have become addicted to federal gubment spending and all the entitlements it provides.

If the CSA had been victorious on 1865 I speculate that both nations, the CSA and USA would have survived in a long standing partnership and might have eventually reunited. Slavery would have been abolished in any case but might have survived a little longer in the CSA.

In 1865 the CSA and USA were protected by a vast ocean and they did not have enemies abroad bent on the absolute destruction of our lifestyle.

Today, our oceans no longer protect us. Islam is hellbent on invading and infiltrating our society and replacing our system with Sharia law.

Secession of states now would result in the total fall of our great nation. A non-united United States could not defend itself against Islam. It is barely hanging on now.

I vote we simply abolish the federal gubment and start from scratch, assigning the task of money printing and defense to the new federal gubment and returning the remaining funds to the individual states to use as they see fit.

NEVER HAPPEN.....

Grouch at Right Truth

I should have said they suck at the later.

Debbie

PAUL CHAMPAGNE: Was that book the one written by the editor of THE RELIGION OF PEACE website? Glen Reinsford? "AGE OF TOLERANCE"? If you have not read that book, I highly recommend it. Go here:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

and scroll down to the bottom.

STORMWARNING: I had not heard of the group either.

BUTCH: I'm sure you have your reasons.

ANGEL: You're not the only one who had not heard this.

GROUCH: I knew you would jump on this one.

PLADIN

WELL I SURE HOPE THE GOOD OL U.S.A. NEVER BREAKS UP. ALL YA GOTTA DO IS GET RID OF ALL THOSE SOCIALIST LIBERAL BUMS........... JUST KIDDIN!!!!!!!! YOU COULD SEND EM TO RUSSIA??? OR MAYBE CHINA??? WE,VE HAD A SEPARTIST MOVEMENT UP HERE IN CANADA FOR 40 YRS. EVERYTIME THEY START TALKING ABOUT IT OUR DOLLAR GOES DOWN, AND IT CAUSES ALL KINDS OF CHAOS. THE PROVINCE THAT WANTS TO SEPARATE IS QUEBEC. BUT DON,T BE FOOLED THEY KNOW WHICH SIDE THEIR BREAD IS BUTTERED ON. PERSONALLY I WISH THEY WOULD SEPARATE. SAY WE,LL TRADE QUEBEC FOR FLORIDA, SOUND GOOD??????? LOL!!!!!!!!

Skunk

On one hand, I wouldn't be bothered by Vermont, Massachusetts and Califorlornia secession; but they'd have to promise to take Moron.arg with them... ;)

Caine

I think what is more interesting is the political or philosphical "leaning" of the secessionist group. Though they say they are "from all walks of life" and "have differing political views" don't believe it. Just look at their printed arguments in favor of their views.

"the radical Christians and Neo-conservatives would be able to impose their will on anyone in the state they chose to - and the rest of us could live in freedom and peace" Okay, so those rotten Christians who have been all about "imposing their will" on everyone else can have their own state. They are against "peace and freedom" apparently. Yeah, Liberals have NEVER forced their will on anyone for anything..expect taxes, regulations, etc. Who started us up in Viet Nam again? Wasn't that a liberal Democrat named Kennedy? Just put those Christians in a state bordered gulag and everything will be rosy again. Uh huh.

Then the fantasy gets worse. "It’s ironic, but if we allowed all of the right-wing warmongers and fundamentalists to have their own states, when terrorists struck - it would probably be in those areas inhabited by the hate-mongers rather than bombing innocent Americans." The same tired philosophy used for "gun control." Stats coming out now show that states with more liberal gun control laws are actually safer than those without. Even the "blessed" Canada, with gun control out the wazoo, is admitting that their society actually has more violence per capita than does the supposedly wild west of the United States.

And as far as I know, those were pretty much innocent Americans in those two towers. I submit that the cowards who blow up buildings will target the innocents more. That is the whole purposed of "terrorism."

So I agree with Thomas Naylor that "the future of the United States is 'grim'" but not for the same reason. Such groups show a hatred of the very things that have made and will make our society work. Rather than acknowledge that reality, they dive further into a fantasy world. I fear even more those who accept their viewpoints but have not the fantasy of secession. Those people, when they vote, will do even more damage. They will "impose" their fantasies on the rest of the nation when now as never before, a hard nosed reality needs to rule.

Stormwarning

Just what is this world coming to? Once again, I agree with "the Grouch from the couch."

And Debbie, while you haven't ever heard of them is a point...the fact that I lived there all my life until 2006, was involved in the community, and never heard of them, I suspect, makes them a fringe group.

I'll ask some of my friends and see if they've ever heard of them.

Debbie

CAINE: Exactly. When they say they are all about inclusion, (Left, Right), they are not. It's Anti Christian, Anti American, Anti everything that makes America what she is. This is a group of NUTS!

Jack

Just one more group of wackjobs to watch out for.

Mark Thomey

My, the sarcasm and vitriol in some of these comments is too thick to cut with a knife. But, they do betray the ignorance and shallowness of mind of the respondents. Secession is, 'antiAmerican', 'antiChristian'? Does the mental midget who wrote this not realize that America was born from secession? Secession is the first and fundamental American principle of liberty and self-government! As Jefferson stated, we have a right and a duty to alter or ABOLISH any government that is destructive of life, liberty, and property and establish a NEW ONE that will. Don't you people get that? Or have you been that brainwashed by the empire? Our allegiance should be to our liberty and not to a particular form of government. The former is true patriotism, the latter is a slavish nationalism. As for unChristian, what could be more unChristian than, 'all men are created equal'? Show me two people in all of God's creation that are equal. You can't. That's one reason why we're to love our neighbour as ourself - precisely because we are NOT equals. And before you jump to an erroneous conslusion, we secessionists/lovers of liberty DO believe in equality before the law. Once again.... loving our neighbour. Inequality before the law, no matter the noble sounding titles under which it masquerades, e.g. 'civil rights', 'affirmative action', 'voting rights', etc., should be repugnant to those who value liberty.
And just because you haven't heard of us doesn't make us less credible. We've been on the internet and on the ground in our local communities for years. Has it occurred to any of you as to why the mainstream media, which is the lapdog of the empire, denies all but the most scoffing attention to us? If we are just a bunch of nuts, why not bring us onto their TV shows, radio shows, etc. and expose us for the buffoons we are?? Hmmm?? Because they may be evil, but they're not stupid. They don't want you to hear about real liberty because you just might realize that the empire has taken yours away
and want it back. Can't have that!!
So scoff if you will, but the tide of history is on our side. The age of the centralized nation-state is ending. Decentralization through secession and independence for smaller, more homogenous republics IS coming. May God save the South and grant her a name and place among the nations of the earth! [><]

Kent

I came across your website by virtue of the Kosovo situation today to find out if our states have the right to secede from the Union. I knew about Vermont and its movement, but that is deep-rooted since the American Revolution. The Civil War obviously settled that question preempting states from doing so. Another interesting development is California: the Northern part of the state has always contemplated splitting CA from their southern neighbors because they have very little in common with each other. I wonder how the Supreme Court would view this case if it ever comes to pass? They'd probably give their blessing as they did when W. Virginia split with Virginia after the Civil War. I also wonder what kind of country America will be in 50 years? Will it be a republic or a confederation? These are interesting rhetorical questions.

Debbie

Kent: Thank you for the comment. As to you're last question:

"wonder what kind of country America will be in 50 years? Will it be a republic or a confederation? These are interesting rhetorical questions."

Yes rhetorical questions, but worthy of discussion. Decisions we make today will certainly have consequences to America's future. No way to know for sure.

Normal

Jesus... I stumbled on this by mistake. Here's a thought... You want freedom? Earn it... Financially! True freedom is financial freedom because with time and money you get more choices in life. And YES everyone in this country has that opportunity still! There is an unseen war in this country: Social Liberals bent on taking away the incentive to produce through overtaxing and "giveaways" to the nonproducers (welfare, etc) versus the producers who believe in the power of Free Enterprise/Capitalism and know that the key to maintaining a free country is a free economy. Knowing this fact and picking the correct side to be on will do more for this country than the succession of states ever will. Start a business... Earn your freedom. Expect it to be hard... Freedom isn't free! God bless Virginia, but God Bless the USA even more!

Debbie

Normal: I agree with you completely. A kindred spirit.

drillbit

I personally would like to see some states secede if Obama is elected,there are some of us who like freedom.

God Bless America

If Comrade Obama and his Obamunist win both the Whitehouse and gain filibuster proof majorities in the House & Senate today then the United States as we know it will no longer exist so for the first time in my life I would be for legal secession of states. The article takes pokes at Christians and so called neo-conservatives, but the fact is it is the left that needs conservatives, we conservatives would be far better off without the left. The left is made up of anti-American and anti-capitalist socialist, criminals, and so called poor people who are more accurately defined as the lazy and stupid people among us. These peoples very existence is reliant on the very military that they bash, but who still protect them. They rely on activist left wing judges to enable their criminal behavior, and they rely on the hard work and stolen taxes of the hard working right to pay for their social programs. Imagine a state that seceded where lazy leftist and socialism didn't exits, a state where justice against criminals was actually administered. A state where business was not labeled as evil and the corporate tax rate went from the second highest in the world as it is now to one of the lowest in the world. Such a state would attract all kinds of business and jobs, no more outsourcing! JFK, Reagan and Bush all proved that cutting taxes actually increases the governments tax revenues rather than shrinks them. Cut my property taxes in half! Allow me to say which school gets my tax dollars so I am no longer forced to pay money to the left-wing propaganda machines that public schools have become! Stop giving my tax money to bike paths, HOV lanes and parks for eco-terrorist. Stop giving my money to lazy people on food stamps, government assisted housing, affirmative action programs (reverse discrimination programs in reality), subsidized mass transit and so on. I will however be glad to pay more taxes for more prisons with mandatory sentencing so that activist judges will not be allowed to let their fellow leftist loose again on society. I live in the Socialist Republic of Washington (Known as WA State to others), but I think Texas would be a perfect place to start the Free States of America. Libs don't want America to be energy independent and they hate oil so they won't miss the oil Texas produces. Our new county would build nuclear plants, allow coal use, use oil/gas and yes we will try alternate sources too unlike the former US which will shut down oil and coal production. A new country where people have that same crazy conservative mind-set to actually work for their own money, pro-business, pro-religion, pro-constitution and rule of law not pro-social justice based on skin color or financial standing like the Obama nation. Obama's Socialist America would fall within a year once hard working conservatives moved to the Free States of America and left the lazy leftist to fend for themselves. All of the businesses would flock to the business friendly Free states and leave the Obama nation where they are taxed to death and considered evil for having succeeded. What a great dream to have considering tonight’s election could be the nightmare that ends America!

Ronald J Helwig

In order to be successful we will need to assemble in a common place and be veiw by the millions that will be watching and it will take your time and money to assemble let us begin to pick a place a date and it must be very soon Begin to e-mail friend with what you think and the place woodstock will have been nothing

Lu Anne

Part of what I like about living in GA is that there is still a refreshing sense of gentility and respect for AND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF right and wrong in society. The nation as a whole has allowed its people to behave with impunity refusing to insist consequences be faced for the decisions we make. After the election, however, I see there are still strongholds of true American values. Our founding fathers saw the importance of personal responsibility, limited central government, and the need for individual states to guide fiscal and social policy. I personally wish for my daughter and I to live in such a nation, but unfortunately it is not the current one. Can we ever return to these values in the USA? Not when over half of the nation votes in a majority of officials with a socialist agenda. Only by a viable and well organized secesionist movement can those of us who dream of a society which values accountability and liberty be satisfied.
What next?

PissOFF

"It’s ironic, but if we allowed all of the right-wing warmongers and fundamentalists to have their own states, when terrorists struck - it would probably be in those areas inhabited by the hate-mongers rather than bombing innocent Americans."

That just goes to show how delusional leftists ARE. The terrorists hate YOU! Hollywood, liberals, and the general debauchery you support. You call it freedom, and actually I agree with your right, not your direction. But the terrorists, well, that's what liberals fail to understand. If there's anyone in this country they hate, IT'S YOU!

Robert

This is dumb shit

Moodring

we must not allow ourselves to be forced to live in a socialist system. We need to suceed from the union in order to preserver the values of freddom and personal responsibility.

Gray Young

I have to say that this discourse gives me great hope. I have been concerned that the obvious extreme left agenda was not going to receive significant resistance. The only way our country can continue to thrive is if neither extreme (left or right) gains the upper hand for too long. However, if this does occur and a schism results. I will be moving to the "right" one b/c that is where my kids will likely have the best chance to meet their full, unfetered potential. I express thanks to all of you for being "thinking" people :)

FastFred

"The South Was Right"

Mark

I got a great idea for those who want to cut up this great land and secede from the unites states. MOVE TO ANOTHER CONTRY AND SEE HOW YOU LIKE IT THEIR.

You don't know how lucky you have it here. I have been all over the world and have not found any other contry that I would like to live in. If you want to secede from this UNITED STATES, then you are on your own. If it does not work for you, DON'T come back. You all have no idea, as a group what you want or what you really need. Have a great Day and may GOD bless this great land.

MARCELAruizluna@aol.com

I don't think the American people would want to start from scratch,they are so lazy and pampered with easy government money,sure they wanted change,and change will have,I was kind a dissapointed when I read an article of this russian polititian Igor Paraniv I think,saying that the USA will split in three because of his downfall economy,I co-related with the political events in my former country BOLIVIA ,now in hands of communist president Evo Morales whom in 2007 negotiate one big piece of a town to produce and exploit uranium with Iran,and also in every corner of my former hometown evething they consume is from Venezuela,that is why,to break away from oppresion of socialism and communism 5 cities are trying to secede,I live here since 1989 I am an American citizen now,but I'm afraid that this once great country is going to fall.

Debbie

MARCELAruizluna:

No I do not see this happening in the US. This was a good while back and I only posted it because I find it interesting to discuss.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and situation.

Debbie

Lu Anne

I agree that the United States is the greatest country in the world but what made this country great was the respect to our Constitution and the founding father's committment to limited central government and the right of the individual states to govern themselves. To assert that those of us that advocate taking action against the current power grab that has occurred over the past 20-30 years should "move to another country" is to say that the founding fathers should have done so also instead of taking on the tyranical forces of Great Britain in the 1700's.
We are bound by our constitution to revolt against any tyranical force be it external or internal. Period!
Governmental interference in arms posession, banking, health care and the free speech of radio and television personalities seems tyranical to me. Does it not to you?

Stephen

Hey Gov. Perry, your major problem is that it is illegal. We fought a pretty big war over this issue, perhaps you have heard about it.

Jimmie R Cox

Why does the radical LEFT label everone who disagrees with them as prejudice hate mongers, and shut down any form of dicource that doesn't agree with them.? What are they afraid of, the truth?

Bill Graham

I think many are missing the point. The idea is to erase the mistakes that have been made, return to the constitution, and be ONE great nation again. The idea being states have the power of government not D.C. No one really advocates ripping apart the country. Just put the power back where it should rightfully be.

conservativebafoons

You are delusional. Have the miltary turn off HAARP in America and we'll see who is reliant on whom. Thie "thing" does nothing but build reliance from strong-independent people as it breaks there connection to the environment. I'm afraid we've been betrayed, as scalar waves are real, they can be seen and they are being used in america.

Mike

There are just too many people with their hand out,.....In America you get just as much freedom and justice as you can afford to pay for...Since our congress is bought and paid for, do you really see anything changing by peaceful means?....Waste by our Federal govt. is the biggest threat to a United States, the deeper in debt we go , the more laws our Congress passes to give itself back a sense of authority, however delusional this may be it does lay the foundation for a Totalitarian governing body...Revolt is eminent,...Our forefathers turn in their grave because we the people have let our Federal govt. and the courts bully us....Incompetence is rewarded only in our nation's beauracracies, nowhere else, so do what you have to do....and you know what that is.

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Most proxies for "grievance" - the theory that civil wars begin because of issues of identity, rather than economics - were statistically insignificant, including economic equality, political rights, ethnic polarization and religious fractionalization. Only ethnic dominance, the case where the largest ethnic group comprises a majority of the population, increased the risk of civil war. A country characterized by ethnic dominance has nearly twice the chance of a civil war. However, the combined effects of ethnic and religious fractionalization, i.e. the more chance that any two randomly chosen people will be from separate ethnic or religious groups the less chance of a civil war, were also significant and positive, as long as the country avoided ethnic dominance. The study interpreted this as stating that minority groups are more likely to rebel if they feel that they are being dominated, but that rebellions are more likely to occur the more homogeneous the population and thus more cohesive the rebels. These two factors may thus be seen as mitigating each other in many cases.

Lu Anne

HUH?

Buy Steroids

CAINE: Exactly. When they say they are all about inclusion, (Left, Right), they are not. It's Anti Christian, Anti American, Anti everything that makes America what she is. This is a group of NUTS!

John

Why do we continue to suffer with each other? Split the country right down the middle, let the socialists take one half and the people that value freedom and responsibility can take the other. Then we'll see who has the last laugh.

I know that people are reluctant to see a breakup of a country they love but here it is: that country no longer exists anyway.

I, for one, would happily suffer seeing the number of stars on "old glory" change if it meant I lived in freedom.

generic viagra

It’s ironic, but if we allowed all of the right-wing warmongers and fundamentalists to have their own states, when terrorists struck - it would probably be in those areas inhabited by the hate-mongers rather than bombing innocent Americans.

Dom

True republics only last an average of 200 years or so. After that, tyranny/socialism/etc eventually take shape and freedom and liberty are typically non-existent after the transformation.

I think the first step in correcting what's wrong with this country starts with Nullification.

dave cornwall

Ever heard of divide and conquer.
at present we have a small hub to deal with. Break up the union and see how many issues arise that can't be fixed. The person with the most weapons will arise to save you, I don't think so. When I write my Senator, I always get an answer. Do I think he cares what I think ? Maybe not but just maybe he needs to know how we feel or if i even care. How do we find good people?

Unhappy Yankee

I would move to any U.S. state that DID secede. Until then, I happily reside overseas. I've had enough of this corrupt govt its politicians that put illegals and every other country around the world before Americans.

bobby harris

i am posting this here i have heard enough of the union they just dont care about us or any american ever since the civi war during the 1860's 'our ancestors tried to defeat the union and didnt win it all, i am planning to lead the final secession for all states from union once again since 1861. this time we will defeat them in washington i want to lead it and get us out of the union hands and tell them enough is enough to fight to take back our freedom they took from us. and our rights.texas had wanted to secede but havent done it yet i am gonna contact them and see how soon this can be done i had planned it for may 20th 2012 NC seceded on may 20 1861 so we can do it again. and this time not lose.and make sure victory will be ours we must wipe out those who are evil once we do it there is no turning back we will move on to washington DC and take over and i think alabama abd mississippi did good they are flying the confederate flags, now, we need to do the same thing take it up and put it up there without being afraid to do it.

Wayne Gadberry

I agree that the Constitution is being trashed by our extreamly large and powerful government. Politicians hold themselves above the law, and the Constitution. I served in the Military, and the oath I took then never expires. To protect and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies both forgien and domestic. That is the same oath the President had to take when assending to his office. He as most politicians appear to say the words, and forget what they said. They don't even protect our boarders or rights.

Is Social Security and Veterans benefits an intitlement? I think not. They were paid for by each and everyone of us by the taxes we paid or the Military Service we we did, and injuries many sustained due to that service.
Those who receive Soc. Security, welfare, food stamps etc., and are unwilling to work, they are receiving intitlements

I anticipate seeing all VA Benefits, Medical, Compensation, and Pentions to be gone within the next three years. Prior to that I expect freedom of speach to be suspended for good, all weapons taken from us and freedom of the press which is mostly controled by the State (Federal Government), and within that same period all elections will be suspended and Communism will prevail.

I don't know what you other Americans think, but I did not serve in the Military to have all of our freedoms striped from us.

Secesion seams to be a viable alternative. I would move. At least I would be able to die with a gun in my hand, defending the Constitution and Country I love support, then die defending my home alone when the U.N. along with Home Land Security come to take my weapons from me.

Many people do not understand that the 2ns amendment was not put in the Constitution so we could hunt, collect guns and go target shooting.

IT IS THERE SO WE THE PEOPLE CAN DEFEND OUR NATION AGINST TYRANICAL GOVERNMENT.

GOD BLESS YOU ALL AND GOD BLESS THE U.S.A.

IT IS TIME TO TAKE OUR HOME LAND BACK.

gene willis

i am afraid people that it will take a coarse of action against the tyrant government of the u.s.a.the government will not allow people tto live free from thiere greedy grasp.blood will be flowing befor any state could possibly secede from government control.that is why the gov. wants to take the second amendment away,so we can not fight back.and if you bilieve that this govn. will allow any state to seced without a boody fight,then you people are the most useful of all idiots.

David

Correct me if I am wrong but the Constitution of the U.S.A. states that if the government in effect doesn't protect our economy and property and we feel we the people can do it better we have the right to establish a new form of government to protect our freedom and rights set forth by our forefathers. So by the way I see it then it doesn't have to be this state seceding or this state but we take back our government and impeach Obama for threatening our way of life and Constitution!

Linda Doss

I think that if all 50 states stop taking money out of our accounts to pay to the government like Income and state tax etc for 3 months, the politicians will realize that they are not getting paid and will swing back to our side. It would take everyone's co-operation but it would solve our problem in a hurry. The politicians are the ones who are holding us back.

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